As I settle into and continue to explore the perspective that modernity is destined to fail, was never a long-term-viable idea, and therefore represents a giant blunder, I keep running into thoughtful writings about what exactly went wrong, at its foundations.
A recurrent culprit—and I tend to agree—involves human supremacism (anthropocentrism), connected to a perceived separateness from nature. This separateness relates to a dualism that began with agriculture, eventually finding full expression during the Enlightenment. Its Enlightenment framing, chiefly associated with Descartes, drives a wedge between mind and matter—as different “substances,” for instance. Thus, while not my main interest, I keep getting routed back to the question of “mind,” as it continues to be a sticking point in dismantling the dualism that is generally agreed to get in the way of appropriate ways of living on this planet.
So, this post is about mind and consciousness, offering my reactions. Now, I should be clear that it doesn’t really matter if we arrive at the Correct Truth on this issue, to the extent that the recommendations emerging from whatever framework result in better alignment to the living world. Any prescription that advocates humility, right-relationship, reciprocity, being part of a whole—fantastic! I may have suspicions and disagreements about the underlying metaphysics, but who cares, in the end? Surely multiple paths can lead to similar ends. Thus, I don’t want to die on that hill, or subvert migration to a better way of living in a crossed-arm philosophical sulk. Nor do I wish to see efforts that claim theirs is the only way, rooted in Truth. Who are we to demand knowing the ultimate truth, anyway? Why should we—or any creature of evolution—expect to? Humility, remember?
Indigenous cultures adopted a diverse universe of stories upon which their well-integrated practices rested, and that’s all for the good—even if the stories are not True in a modern sense. What matters is the practices and attitudes the stories motivate. I suspect that we can likewise tolerate a diversity of metaphysical underpinnings, to the extent that they allow compatibility with the community of life.
That said, I will now address what I see as an unfortunate tendency in the drive to abolish dualism. Maybe it can lead to similar, good outcomes, but I worry that it preserves a tinge of supremacy, while failing to destroy the chief horcrux of dualism. Be prepared to lose your mind, as I have done.
Beware the Shortcuts!
Let me start on what I hope is common ground. While mental representations are always shortcuts in some sense, I assume that most people motivated to read my material value at least some degree of critical thinking. Thus, I assume that most are attracted to explanations of rainbows, seasons, tides, biodiversity, etc. by routes other than “that’s how The Creator made it—end of story.” It’s totally fine to admit that we don’t or can’t know something, but let us please limit the impulse to “explain” complexity using facile shortcuts. Likewise, I suspect that even phenomena that are too messy to understand to satisfaction—like maybe charge separation in turbulent clouds to make lightning—are nonetheless assumed to have a basis in physics without supernatural intervention. Apologies if I am assuming wrongly: if so, the rest may seem like gibberish.
Why on Earth would our physiology be different? Complex? Absolutely. Forever beyond our means to fully explain? You bet. Is every sensation we experience exempt from having a material basis? I strongly suspect not. Are any sensations exempt? I’m not sure why they would be, without nurturing a dualistic worldview.
Obvious, but Wrong
For most of human history it was blindingly obvious that the sun, moon, and stars went around the earth. All one had to do was pay attention to confirm the illusion. Turns out it’s more complicated. It was likewise self-evident that a rock was completely solid, rather than mostly empty space, whose mass exists in the form of nuclei occupying 0.0000000000001% of the volume. While it sure looks and feels solid to our blunt senses, the truth is more complicated. Meanwhile, as Galileo, Newton, and generations of ever-more advanced scientists knew in their bones, space and time were distinct properties—never mixing, which is prima facie absurd. But yes, the actual universe is more complicated: much more than meets the eye. Now, ask virtually any human who has ever lived whether the phenomenon they associate with mind/consciousness is “nothing but” mechanics of neurons (matter interactions) and most will say that it’s obviously more than just matter and physics. After all, they feel it. What could be more convincing? But maybe what we feel is also complicated.
That we experience sensations produced in our bodies, like the feeling of consciousness, is not surprising. Can you think of any other sensations you have access to feel? Hunger, thirst, color vision? Everything we experience feels like something, to a physiological being interfaced to the world via an enormous complexity of stimuli and sensory inputs. It would be rather bizarre if we didn’t feel things, including a sense of self. After all, we have to maneuver our bodies through this world, which would be rather hard without a concept of self. Feelings are adaptive sensations that are basically inevitable products of evolution. (Note that language is infused with duality: “our bodies” suggests material bodies belong to some non-corporeal entity, making communication on this subject tricky indeed.)
The “blindingly obvious” reality of mind/consciousness (I’ll often use just “mind” as shorthand for both) blinds us to the possibility that it’s yet another convincing sensation contrived by our physiology that has adaptive benefit. Isn’t it practically inevitable that a creature capable of collecting sensory inputs, building mental models of the world to organize myriad stimuli, and navigating within it will develop some functional awareness of those mental models and of being a presence in the world? How, exactly, would we propose preventing awareness of our capacity to think or occupy space? And to what end?
But I’m getting ahead of myself. The purpose of this post is to ask you to genuinely confront, even if seeming outlandish at first blush, the notion that mind is yet another clever neural construct: a handle by which we have useful awareness of our cognitive capabilities and of the fact that we are entities on the planet.
Dualism
The speculative notion that we have a matter-transcendent mind has derailed the human project for a very long time. The crisis came to a head in the Enlightenment with that notorious wanker called Descartes. Apologies for the slanderous language, but really, I have yet to read anything likable about the guy, or his unhinged musings (Cogito, ergo loco). Taking the mind to be an unquestionable transcendent reality led to a formalized dualism that helped justify and amplify the millennia-old practice of human supremacy over all other nature: mind being a divinely-bestowed substance unique to humans that had no connection to insultingly-inert material substance, which of course had no difficulty making up all the animals and plants and rocks. Nothing good can come of that artificial schism.
As science progressed, it became ever-more clear that at least some aspects of mind had a neurological basis. This uncomfortable association paved the way for a materialist monism (matter is the whole, single story). But even today, strict monism is frequently rejected on the basis that it hasn’t or ostensibly can’t—even in theory—satisfactorily explain mind. Infuriatingly, it is often claimed that monism implicitly propagates dualism by its failure to account for mind and consciousness.
A brief rant: A) dualism is only kept alive by non-monists who posit that mind is inexplicable on a material basis; and B) a completely satisfactory account of the illusion of mind from first principles is likely forever beyond our capabilities, which is not the fault of the actual universe as much as the fault of our manifestly limited brains. Let’s not escape to unsupported conclusions just because something is hard to figure out.
So, we’re still getting tripped up on the very thing that led Descartes to his infamous dualism: mind as a non-material substance. I agree that we would do well to reject dualism. But as long as we can’t let go of “mind” as a transcendent phenomenon not possibly emergent from material interactions, well, we’re utterly stuck—like a classic monkey trap. Some react by doubling down and making mind “primary” over matter (idealism; panpsychism; matter is a product of mind; even en electron has some quantum of consciousness). In my view, that just drives the wheels deeper into the mud. For me, the resolution is like the spoon-bending kid’s advice to Neo in The Matrix: There is no Mind. Literally mind-blowing!
Reductionism
Idealists (opposite materialists) frequently characterize the materialist stance as being reductionist, robbing the mind of its obvious irreducible glory. What? To me, it is quite the reverse. I can understand, given a justifiable sense of awe over the amazingness of mind, that any attempt to “reduce” something so powerful and mysterious to neurons and inert electrons seems rather deflating and, well, mindless. A material explanation then comes off as insulting and “obviously” wrong. Thus the flame of dualism is kept kindled: yay?
“Reducing” humans to mere machines might seem insulting, but chiefly because the technological creations we call machines are pathetic: deliberately deprived of emergent awesomeness by both being piecemeal composites of basic ideas that emerge from limited human brains rather than a richly-storied ecological context, and because we intentionally stamp out unforeseen interactions that we call “bugs.” If associating a human (or an amoeba) with a machine is insulting, it’s only because our creations are insults to the intricate emergent complexity of stupendously-more fantastic machines such as the amoeba, crafted to near-perfection over deep time. Just because an amoeba is many orders-of-magnitude more subtle and sophisticated than our technological machines does not justify a categorical distinction as to the fundamental material basis. Too hasty.
While it is certainly correct that we do not possess an end-to-end explanation for mind/consciousness, asserting that a purely material basis is not possible—not even to be entertained—seems reflexive and unjustified. The idea is rejected out of hand for no reason I have ever judged to be compelling—certainly not resting on anything we would call evidence, but rather affinity, preference, impatience, and arrogance—as if we get to decide how the universe works. Mind and consciousness are effectively declared to be off limits to explanations involving mere matter interaction. Even attempting such reasoning is derided as a lack of fundamental appreciation for how the universe really works—or at least how we wish it to work, in our minds.
In fact, the primary argument for a real and separate phenomenon of mind appears to come down to the word: qualia. Translation: “I feel it!” Meanwhile, the materialists are unjustly held hostage: “Until a complete end-to-end material explanation is provided, we will not credit its possibility. Oh—and it’s pointless and misguided to even try.”
Materialist Expansivism
The “reductionist” label usually carries a derogatory connotation: akin to small-minded; narrow; unimaginative; pedantic; misguided; simpleton. To me, this flavoring reveals an enormous disconnect.
I find the notion that the experience of mind/consciousness ultimately rests on physics to be astoundingly unfathomable. It’s the opposite of small-minded: the full complexity is far bigger than our brains can manage (dwell on that for a moment). It’s the opposite of narrow, surpassing the scope of even the broadest thinkers. It’s the opposite of unimaginative, in that we do not possess sufficient imagination to flesh out the rich tapestry of interactions that make it all possible. You get the picture. The “reductionist” label grossly conceals an expansive reality behind a pejorative word. How’s this for an example of reductionism: try sweeping an enormous pile of unfathomable complexity under a rug labeled “mind” and pretend it’s a phenomenon unto its own—asserting that it is its own category apart from physics and neurochemistry. That’s some impressive reduction of an enormous tangle!
Opposite of stifling the wonder of our “mind” experience, the materialist perspective is, to me, inexpressibly awesome. It’s mind-blowing! It is unimaginably rich, deep, and inscrutable—which is not grounds for disqualifying something from having a material origin. It doesn’t remotely fit in our heads, unlike a facile label of mind, or consciousness, or a god can. Just as the real story of lightning is far more intricate, mysterious, and overwhelming than the cop-out of saying “God makes it happen,” the emergent complexity of mind from basic building blocks is far more wondrous than impatiently giving up and assuming it must just be its own thing. I am reminded of a scene from Galaxy Quest: “What I’d give to see what you’re seeing…you’re deep in the underbelly of the Omega-13.” The actual, complicated, incomprehensible universe is stunning to behold—always surpassing our limited imaginations.
A Quandary
Here’s a puzzle: if mind is not neurological in origin, what the hell are all those neurons busy doing? Why even bother? This gets back to the core problem of dualism: why carry both mind and matter as separate, non-interacting substances? Is the advanced degree of mind in humans somehow disconnected from the advanced architecture of our brains? Mere coincidence? Why is it that biophysical processes that interfere with neural function severely alter mental states or render us unconscious—like hallucinogens, anesthesia, or brain trauma? If the brain can take away consciousness, isn’t it the thing that creates it?
Is mind somehow separate from neurophysics, operating independently? Isn’t it far more likely that among the amazing tricks the brain can pull off after hundreds of millions of years of honing is a sense of consciousness and mind? Is the fact that we’re not clever enough to have connected all the dots somehow disqualifying to such a reality? Who are we to make demands? Is it arrogance? Entitlement?
What does insistence on mind as a non-material phenomenon really come down to? Obviously we have no firm evidence that the sensation of mind is not neurological in origin. Is it just unpalatable to believe that we might be lumps of matter in splendid arrangement? Is the gap too frighteningly big? Does the convenient attribution to “mind” act as a security blanket, in the same way that a deity might act for many?
The tables might be turned on me: lacking conclusive and complete evidence on either side, my preference for materialism might be equally attributed to wishfulness. What do I have against mind as a real, qualitatively separate phenomenon? I guess it comes back to aversion to dualism. Without dualism, the question becomes whether mind or matter is “primary” (a term that itself keeps dualism lit, implying a secondary). I find it far more plausible that mind can emerge from complex interactions of matter (as so many amazing phenomena do; and: what would prevent it?) than that matter somehow derives from mind. Physics, astrophysics, cosmology, geology, climate, erosion, thunderstorms all get by without life on Earth and without the rare, localized, transitory sensations of mind that naturally flowed out of evolved brains. It would seem an enormous (impossible?) undertaking to demonstrate that mind cannot arise from matter interactions. What could possibly stand up to scrutiny?
Illusionism
I recently read a series of papers (Frankish, Dennett) on the concept of the illusion of consciousness. I highly recommend these and associated papers. In his delightfully well-written piece, Dennett compares our mental construct of consciousness to stage magic—the art of crafting convincing illusions. Another useful analog is the trash can icon on a computer’s desktop. Dragging a file to the trash can is a symbolic representation of making the file disappear (which itself does not happen upon the action of deletion: the associated space in memory is just de-linked in the look-up table and is thereafter available to be overwritten at some later time). We know the computer does not have a literal trash can inside, but the handle is useful. Our perception of mind and consciousness may operate similarly: a handy construct that helps us conceive of something that in truth is far too complicated to piece together. Just call it mind and move on. It’s yet another mental model shortcut that is exactly what brains are built to do—thus true to form, without needing to be true to reality.
So, let your mind go. It might be the biggest leap imaginable: bigger than letting go of belief in a deity. After all, we’re intimately acquainted with our internal trash can—I mean mind. We’ve known it all our lives. We feel it! It’s familiar.
What’s left on the other side is far from nihilism—itself a symptom of the failure-of and overdependence-on mental models: a lack of imagined alternatives. Everything awaits on the other side: nothing real goes away when your mental model collapses. Reality is bigger and more expansive than you dreamed. It’s beautiful, mysterious, unfathomable. Maybe it’s scary to confront the unknown, but we can also delight in beholding the frontier. It’s awe inspiring. Your sensation of mind will never go away. It’s just a matter of saying “Hmm. That’s a pretty neat trick,” and appreciating the spectacular nature of the fact that it all works, somehow. Life is incredible!
Why Even Go There?
Given my perspective that modernity is a temporary phase poised to fail, why do I even bother poking into matters of mind? Well, as I mentioned in the introduction, it keeps coming up as I explore what others say about the core problem of modernity (dualism). It’s a perennial sticking point. It’s part of the monkey trap. It’s also connected to cognitive limitations in general.
In the last post, I elaborated a recent theme of mine: that brains are shortcut machines lacking the capacity for complete ecological context, so that modernity amounts to an unwieldy tangle of brain-farts. Clearly human brains were a huge factor in creating the unsustainable predicament we find ourselves in. It is therefore valuable to appreciate our brains—both in terms of limitations, and in terms of convincing illusions they create for adaptive benefit.
Here’s why it is important to me personally to carry a theory of mind that anchors it in the same framework as everything else we observe:
- We are part of the universe; made of the same stuff; connected; integral.
- Humility flows from this interconnectedness and kinship with all life and matter.
- Positing a separate mind is a shortcut that robs the universe and life of its customary splendid complexity.
- Recognition that even mind/consciousness is a mental model helps us appreciate that this is just what brains do, and that mental models are not required to be correct to be adaptive.
- Mind has supremacist leanings: wrenching the phenomenon out of the hands of the material universe so that we are the masters is a dangerous, self-flattering conceit.
Rather than being offended that I might be “reduced” to matter and its interactions, I can revel in it. I can humbly embrace my kinship to the whole universe, and my shared heritage with all life. From this basis in humility, I am prepared to give up on mastering all knowledge, and embrace any number of figurative stories and/or animistic framings that serve to ground us in right-relationship with the utterly amazing community of life. I worry that clinging to the special construct of mind keeps us at arms’ length from being part of nature—made of the same atoms and belonging to the world.
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This is correct, in my view. It reminds me of Gregory Bateson's theory of mind.
Hmmm. Here's what I find: "According to Bateson, consciousness is the bridge between the cybernetic networks of individuals, society and ecology." Seems opposite my point. Panpsychism is all about consciousness connecting everything, and I'm saying consciousness is an emergent construct of material interactions. But I suppose my post could remind someone of Bateson's ideas in the sense that I'm countering them.
It is interesting that the 'brain' is the same mental model as the mind. The body is whole (as far as a person is concerned, so exactly) and the brain cannot exist without the circulatory system, the lymphatic system, and the endocrine system.
That is, the complexity spreads radially in three dimensions, no matter which part of the system we consider.
Again, to be moved by this greatness while appreciating its excellence and humbly accepting one's own partiality is a great task.
IMHO.
Excellent point. In order to have thoughts at all, one needs blood, a heart, kidneys, metabolic organs, air, water, minerals, plants, animals, fungi, microbes, an earth, a sun, a galaxy. Thus, even "our" brain (let alone a fiction like a soul or consciousness) doesn't wholly own "our" thoughts.
Challenging Cartesian Duality is a good project. The ‘thinking mind’ is not a separate entity, but instead is deeply embedded in our animal nature. Here are some examples that might count as more evidence that mind/consciousness is a phenomenon of our meat brains. 1) Brain injuries or diseases cause predictable and profound changes in personality, memory, cognition, suggesting that mental functions are tied to physical brain structure. 2) Using imaging tech, like fMRI and PET scans, researchers can observe brain activity in real time. Neural patterns and activities correlate with subjective experiences like feeling emotion, or forming a thought, or seeing a color. 3) You mention this, but drugs that alter brain chemistry — antidepressants, anesthetics, or hallucinogens — predictably change mental states, lending weight to the idea that consciousness and thought are chemically mediated. 4) Persons being treated for epilepsy who have their corpus callosum severed can exhibit dual behaviors, showing that hemispheres can operate independently. Doesn’t all this point to the fact that specific brain regions and their connectivity are critical to a unified personality and consciousness?
I think what you are suggesting is very similar to panpsychism. Panpsychism is not dualist. It suggests that mind (or consciousness) is part of matter. Consciousness as we experience it arises as an emergent property. But it does so because there is an inherent quality of matter that when arranged in a sufficiently compex way produces it. This is almost exactly what you are saying. You reject it because you want to be absolutist in your materialism. I think your suggestion dodges the issue of how such a thing as 'experience' has arisen. You say why it might have happened, but not even a hint of how. Panpsychism is an attempt at the how. It ties this to the material world but it also links it to thousands of years of human philosophy and sprituality. Our need to be connected to everything in some fundamental, but also transcendental way. This 'need' has driven religion, philosophy and other belief systems, such as Buddhism and Taoism. You dismiss this as illusion, rather than a manifestation of something inherent. We are conscious because every particle of us is imbued with that potential. It is a feature, not an accident.
I hear you, but disagree. I don't dispute that humans have needs that drive the creation of fictions, but our needs have nothing to do with the actual organizing principles of the universe. I don't see us as entitled to understanding "how." I believe the jump to consciousness as an inherent organizing principle is unjustified and a result of needing to make up a "how," arising from dissatisfaction and impatience. It strikes me as inherently dualist to say: yes, there is matter, but this completely separate transcendent phenomenon of consciousness acts to organize the matter. Absolutism goes both ways, like the unsupportable claim that "every particle of us is imbued with that potential."
An interesting article, thank you. I think the logical effect of your argument is that there is no free will, how can we decide what to even think? Also there is no survival after death.
I am quite happy to accept both of these propositions but in my experience the majority of people are not.
Correct: these two conclusions are consistent with my thinking. Lack of free will does not mean we can't do things, react to complex stimuli in ways we can't predict, or have agency in that we can be agents of change by interacting with the world, heavily influenced by our neural shenanigans. It just means there is not a we/I outside of the matter arrangement and physics interactions: no override; no entity in control. Our atoms do what they do because they are in arrangements and relationships that have been honed by evolution to be successful and flexible performers on the world stage. There's nothing more to us than the piles of atoms in bogglingly-complex arrangements that are able to do amazing things. The gap between what we can comprehend and the material reality is so vast that folks can't stomach it, and grasp for the safety of a reassuring notion.
When you say: "how can we decide what to think," there is no "we." No one in charge outside of, above, transcending the material body. Our bodies think what they do, guided by matter and relationships (physics), in arrangements that simply have evolved to work. It's beyond us to fully get it.
So you have progressed from denying free-will to denying consciousness?
The problem with illusionism is that illusions are a conscious experience. Rocks don't have illusions (I confidently assert).
You're only imagining you have an imagination!
Consciousness is just information processing. You don't need to deny it exists to refute dualism.
Cute. Your last statement is not far from where I am: our sensation of consciousness is just neurons constructing a feeling. The illusion is that it is a transcendent phenomenon beyond a material origin. Check out what the panpsychists say. What I have are neurons (and all supporting hardware), which construct what we call imagination and consciousness. Rocks don't have neurons, so I agree: no illusions possible. The main thing is that our experience of consciousness is an emergent material phenomena, not a separate (dualist) phenomenon transcending matter arrangement and the physics we already know—which is enough.
Nice one Tom. Lot of this stuff goes over my head, but it's still very interesting.
I recently got into Peter Wessel Zapffe and Thomas Ligotti. I always ignorantly equated this pessimism, nihilism, HP Lovecraft stuff with satanic worship. LOL. But these guys are showing me that they are very hip and aware to our predicament. I'm new to it and still have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, but your essay today reminded me of this passage from Ligotti:
"We are defined by our limitations. Without them we cannot suffice as functionaries in the big show of conscious existence. The farther you progress toward a vision of our species without limiting conditions on your consciousness, the farther you drift away from what makes you a person among persons in the human community. In the observance of Zappfe, an unleashed consciousness would alert us to the falsity of ourselves and subject us to the pain of Pinocchio."
Yeah, you think getting people to give up dualism is tricky, just try getting them to give up free will.
I have appreciated Dennet for decades, ever since I read "Darwin's Dangerous Idea." But my favorite thing about him is (was?) his insistence on the existence of free will. Especially considering his take on the illusion of consciousness. That an illusion should have free will is truly hilarious.
Yeah—I can't account for that disconnect (as I consider it to be). But neither is it surprising. The illusion is rather convincing, and we can "know" more about it through direct personal experience than we can possibly know about all the mechanics that make the illusion possible. So it's very attractive, and as "obvious" as a rock is solid.
Hi Tom,
Amen to this: “Any prescription that advocates humility, right-relationship, reciprocity, being part of a whole—fantastic!”.
The idea/possibility of “emergence” of consciousness from matter is something I am still grappling with, but I am certainly not one to dismiss it! (For me, one of the most amazing things about existence is the actual experience of colour. Nothing will ever explain this to me! No words or maths at least! And any explanation that labels it an illusion seems daft to me… Maybe we should just accept that the possibility for “explanation” is limited? All models fall short. The complete explanation for something would be the thing itself?)
I really think you and other interested commentators might get something from reading one or more of
Freya Mathew’s The Ecological Self”, “For Love of Matter”, “Reinventing Reality” and “The Dao Civilisation” (this latter work is a good summary of her overall current thinking). She labels her philosophy “Living Cosmopsychism”. I must admit that, for a former scientist like me, a label like this immediately sets off alarm bells 🙂 However, to me the metaphysic she presents seems very much something that a Western-type scientist can accept/entertain as a good/reasonable/not-without-merits argument for seeing ourselves as part of a whole, and that guides us naturally to a state of humility and a desire to seek right-relationship. I particularly like the way Freya considers the merits of indigenous worldviews but at the same time recognises that we must take as our current starting point the fact that the vast majority of us have a Western-style, dualist, reductionist mindset. We can’t simply “go back” to the past, we must progress from where we are.
On a more general note, the term “panpsychism” seems to be something of a lightening rod/anathama. It is worth keeping mind that there are all sorts of interpretations. Sometimes it gets confused with (or what people are actually presenting is) better described as “idealism” – the view that mind is fundamental and that the physical word is an illusion (ughhh!). Some versions try to fit within a reductionist and/or dualist mindset, which immediately makes people freak out about the idea of electrons having a mind. I find it important to read each piece of work on panpsychism with an open mind rather than letting a “vibe” discourage me from pre-emptively dismissing it. But people’s time is limited and one can’t read everything…
One of the things I really like about Freya’s work is that in the end it essentially advocates for “being in the world” rather than always trying to explain it, and this encourages a synergistic style of existence more grounded in reality, rather than “living in a model” (to borrow your term, Tom).
On a different but related note, I have also come across some recent “out there” work by Stuart Kauffman that is worth a look, eg.
https://scholar.google.com/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=yoPM0F8AAAAJ&sortby=pubdate&citation_for_view=yoPM0F8AAAAJ:oynPyU19kbsC
For anyone needing reminding about the mind-blowing phenomenon that is Life, his recent papers on “Bioscosmology” are a must. Life will find a way! A good read is also his paper “Eros and Logos”:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0969725X.2020.1754011
I personally find Freya’s work a lot more useful (and humble!) in terms of providing an actual overarching framework for living well
Thanks again for your fantastic work, Tom! What I like about you most is your humility and pleas for us to respect the inherent value of all life.
Cheers, Bim
I appreciate the warning about overreacting to labels. We don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and the lesson of living in the world as part of it is certainly music to my ears. The thing that sets off alarm bells for me is when folks of various panpsychist stripes attempt to describe my type (a materialist-monist), and seem to get it completely wrong—as if they haven't understood the depth that is possible in such a position. The labels of reductionist and closet-dualist and Cartesian miss the mark very widely. I tried to give voice to some of these frustrations in this post.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this thorny subject Tom. Having pondered these questions for most of my adult life – with no conclusion reached – I feel that it may be a ‘both and’ rather than an ‘either or’ kinda thing, frustrating though it may be.
There doesn’t seem to even be a hypothesis on the table as to how matter can give rise to consciousness. We’ve made progress and gained insights into so much of the natural world, yet we remain unable to even posit a notion as to how this could happen.
Similarly we don’t have an explanation as to how matter, or the apparent materiality of the universe emerges from consciousness, if that is the fundamental substrate of existence.
Quantum physics appears to demonstrate that what we took to be a material universe is anything but.
Are we looking at two sides of the same coin? Is a dualist perspective an inevitable one?
It seems as though the same charge could be laid at the feet of both materialism and idealism…that it is the other that is responsible for casting us out of the Garden of Eden, for creating this rift between the two hemispheres of our brains, the dual perspectives that evolution has produced in us.
Either way, I agree that it is probably impossible for us to ever know the answer to these questions. I’m not sure that collapsing the answer into either side of this eternal debate will ever prove satisfactory. I guess that make me a dualist! 🤣
It is not difficult to sketch out a plausibility argument for a sensation of consciousness arising from matter and its interactions. We know enough about neurology to get how memories form and sensations arise. The layers of complexity, however, might be significant enough to put experimentally conclusive tests off the table. That's different from being absolutely stymied about how it could possibly happen, at a total loss. Quantum physics in no way demonstrates a non-material universe, at least to physicists who explore the subject in the laboratory. Be aware that 99% of physics books are not about the particles, but about their complex interactions. Quantum physics added unanticipated twists to interactions, but does not itself refute materialism.
I'm prepared to posit a notion. You need sensory apparatus, motor apparatus, memory apparatus, neural layers of increasing abstraction, and a playroom. You remember the feedback you get from wiggling your motors and sensing the effects. Eventually you build an abstract model of the world in which the parts you can wiggle are you and the parts you can't are not-you. Then the bastards send you to school.
I hear you Tom and sympathise with your frustration. I wonder if the way we straight out dismiss the work of others or don’t appreciate the true depth of their thinking is largely to do with semantics, i.e. people Imbuing different meanings (sometimes only subtle) to many words. Also, or related to this, we often can’t faithfully put into words what it is that we are really thinking/feeling ourselves. If this weren’t bad enough, we then speak/write those words and expect someone to hear/read those words and be able to faithfully translate them into exactly the same feelings/thoughts we had, error-free! No wonder we are frustrated! These are the points that Abraham Peper makes (I mentioned him in my comment on your last post). That’s why I agree with others that language and “explanation ” can be a real problem, one leading to barbarically cruelty and wars. And that’s why I think just “being in the world” is often better than trying to explain it (even to ourselves). We leave out the translation step(s) in which we attempt to convert our multi/-sensorial experence into a one-dimensional string of symbols (and then vice verca if communicating with some one), and instead remain more directly engaged with the world via our full range of senses (I find this a better way to let go of my mind than meditation). If we did more of this we might not be so enslaved/enamoured/addicted to the mental models we create, and we might begin to develop some resistance to the worst dualism/illusion of all – the belief that we are separate from nature. With that, I will shut up…
If I might insert a reflection. Physicists are accustomed to being disappointed, and not getting their way. Experiments hand the microphone to nature (the universe), which might not say what we want. Relativity, quantum mechanics, a cosmological constant, or neutrinos having mass were not adopted because of their appeal, but crammed down our throats by the most powerful and final arbiter imaginable. We can't now decide it's fashionable/attractive to adopt some counterfactual theory.
Meanwhile, other disciplines operate under less constraint, and have no ultimate authority telling them NO. Anything goes. Preference, affinity, cleverness now can play a guiding role. This is why I keep saying that we don't get to decide how the universe actually works, and might well be stuck with a reality that does not cater to our wishes. That's the tough-love universe I'm used to. It pairs well with humility.