
Whenever I suggest that humans might be better off living in a mode much closer to our original ecological context as small-band immediate-return hunter-gatherers, some heads inevitably explode, inviting a torrent of pushback. I have learned from my own head-exploding experiences that the phenomenon traces to a condition of multiple immediate reactions stumbling over each other as they vie for expression at the same time. The neurological traffic jam leaves us speechless—or stammering—as our brain sorts out who goes first.
One of the most common reactions is that abandoning agriculture is tantamount to committing many billions of people to death, since the planet can’t support billions of hunter-gatherers—especially given the dire toll on ecological health already accumulated.
Such a reaction definitely contains elements of truth, but also a few unexamined assumptions. The outcome need not be reprehensible for several reasons.
We All Die
Presumably this doesn’t come as a shock to anyone, but the 8 billion humans now on the planet are all going to die: every last one of them. This will happen no matter what. It’s inevitable. No one lives forever, or even much beyond a century.
Are we mortified by this news, intellectually? Of course not: our individual mortality comes as no great surprise. Some even accept it emotionally! So, there we go: whatever (realistic) proposal anyone else might offer for how humanity goes forward has the exact same consequence: OMG: you’ve just committed 8 billion people to die! You decide to have toast for breakfast? 8 billion people will end up dying. Nice going. Monster.
Timescales
I suspect that many strongly-negative reactions to suggestions that we adopt a “primitive” (ecologically-rooted) lifestyle trace to an implicit assumption about timescales. Maybe this is a result of our culture’s short-term focus on quarterly profits, short election cycles, or any other political proposal that tends to promise short- or intermediate-term results. So, perhaps it is assumed without question or curiosity that I am talking about a radical transition taking place over years or decades rather than centuries or even millennia. I would never…
Maybe I need to be better about pre-loading my discussion with this temporal context, since the assumption of short-term focus is so universal, and I get accused of misanthropy for something I never said—a running theme in this post. Abandoning agriculture need not happen overnight (and can’t, reasonably)!
Hypocrite!
Some of the angrier reactions suggest I volunteer to be one of those killed dead as part of my assumed/conjured “program,” or that I get my hypocritical @$$ out into the woods to eat lichen, naked. First of all, normal attrition, accompanied by sub-replacement fertility, is all it takes to whittle human population down, without requiring even a single premature death. And suppressed fertility needn’t be programmatically mandated like it was in China for a few decades: it’s happening on its own volition right now, around the globe. Roughly 70% of humans on the planet live in countries whose fertility rate is below replacement. It’s not a niche phenomenon, and presages a nearly-inevitable population downturn once the already-rolling train reaches the reproductive station in a generation’s time.
Part of the “you first” reaction, I believe, relates to our culture’s emphasis on the individual self. People automatically translate that I am asking them, personally, to become a hunter-gatherer or die. Again, I never said that, but it’s not unusual for people conditioned by our culture to take things personally, given ample reinforcement that we are each the deserving center of our own universe and little else matters. It is therefore understandable that members of modernity would assume (project) the same outlook is true for me. For those operating under this narrow (self-referential) assumption of how all others work, many valuable voices in the world must become baffling—or suspected of being disingenuous—which is a little sad.
When I point my passion toward avoiding a sixth mass extinction (which I interpret to include humans), I am not thinking about myself at all, but humans not yet born and species I don’t even know exist. My concern is focused on the health and happiness of a biodiverse, ecologically rich future. I myself am practically a lost cause as a product of modernity still trapped within its prison bars, and sure to die well before any of this resolves. Moreover, I can’t decide to roam the local lands hunting and gathering as long as property rights prevail and I do not enjoy membership in an ecological community operating outside the law. But, what I can do is try to get more people to wish for freedom, so that when opportunities arise good things can germinate in the cracks and force the cracks wider—even if I’m long gone when the crumbling process is complete. To repeat: it’s not about me. Talk of hypocrisy misses the boat entirely, by decades or centuries.
Not Even a Choice
Even if my audience gets over the shocked misimpression that I’m not talking about them personally, or a transition in their lifetimes, the objection can still remain strong. Isn’t keeping something like 8 billion humans alive indefinitely (via replacement in a steady demographic) far superior to something like 10–100 million hunter-gatherers living in misery?
First, the Hobbesian fallacy of believing foraging life to be “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short” is so far off the mark and ignorantly uninformed as to be pitiable—but certainly understandable given our culture’s persistent programming on this point. Christopher Ryan’s Civilized to Death does a fantastic job dismantling this myth based on overwhelming anthropological evidence. Turns out we don’t get to fabricate stories of the past out of whole cloth (i.e., out of our meat-brains), without one bit of relevant knowledge or experience.
More broadly, if one’s worldview is that of a human supremacist (nearly universal in our culture, after all), then preservation of a ∼1010 human population makes complete sense: can’t have too much of a godly thing.
But we mustn’t forget that 8 billion humans are driving a sixth mass extinction, which leaves no room for even 10 humans if fully realized, let alone 1010. Deforestation, animal/plant population declines, and extinction rates are through the roof, along with a host of other existential perils. We have zero reason or evidence to believe (magically) that somehow 8 billion people could preserve modern living standards—reliant as they are on a steady flow of non-renewable extraction—while somehow not only arresting, but reversing the ominous ecological trends.
No serious, credible proposals to accomplish any such outcome are on the table: the play is to remain actively ignorant of the threat, facilitated by a narrow focus on this fleeting moment in time during which the modernity stunt has been performed. If ignorance did not prevail, we’d see retreat-oriented proposals coming out of our ears for how to mitigate/prevent the sixth mass extinction—but people say “the sixth what?” and go back to focusing on the Amazon that isn’t a dying rain forest. Most people know about climate change, but the dozens of “solutions” proposed to mitigate climate change amount to maintaining full power for modernity so that we motor-on at present course and speed under a different energy source. The IPCC never recommends orders-of-magnitude fewer humans or abandoning high-energy, high-resource-use lifestyles…because it would be political suicide—which says a lot about the limited value of such heavily-constrained institutions.
Saying that the planet (and humans as a part of it) would be better off with far fewer people can result in my being labeled a misanthrope, though I’ve never said I dislike people. I’ve heard it put nicely this way by several folks: I don’t hate people. I love them—just not all at the same time.
Quantitatively, 10–100 million humans on the planet for the next million years seems far preferable to 10 billion for only 100 or so more before the dominoes fall in a cascading ecological collapse at mass-extinction levels. Factoring in infant mortality and life expectancy among pre-historic people, a population of 10–100 million for a million years translates to roughly 200 billion to 2 trillion adults over time—far outweighing the total human life of 10 billion over a century or two.
Perhaps, then, I’m justified in turning the tables: reacting in horror to those who would propose to maintain a population of 8 billion, as this effectively condemns humans to a short tenure before mass extinction wipes us out. Why do proponents of maintaining present population levels hate humans so much? I’m actually serious!
Try this on: people love their kids, right? Let’s say that parents having 1–10 children are capable of expressing adequate love and providing adequate resources for all their kids. But if kids are so great, why not have 800 per family? You see, even great things cease to be great when the numbers are insane. 10–100 million humans can know a love and provision from Mother Earth that 8 billion surely will not. It’s madness, and our nurturing mother is being ravaged by the onslaught of the teeming, unloved—thus unloving—masses. Indeed, our culture wages war against the Community of Life, erroneously convinced that it was at war with us first. Yet, it created us, and nurtured us, or we would not be here!
Allowing normal demographic reduction to a sustainable population maximizes the total number of humans able to enjoy living on Earth. Now, I can’t really justify that as a valid metric—especially given our crimes against species—but I’m exposing my bias as a human (short of human supremacy: just expressing a preference that humans have some place on Earth rather than none). Not all human cultures have acted as destructively as ours, by a long shot, and many have considered Earth to be a generous, nurturing partner. Sustainable precedents liberally spread across a few million years at least somewhat justify the belief that humans can enjoy living on Earth without killing the host, and I’ll take what I can get.
Space Parallel
Tipped off by Rob Dietz of the Post Carbon Institute, I listened to a fantastic podcast episode called “The Green Cosmos: Gerard O’Neill’s Space Utopia”. In the last four minutes, professor of religion Mary-Jane Rubenstein reported that her students held an inverted sense of the impossible. To them, it was utterly impossible to imagine living on Earth with “nothing” (tech gadgets) as our ancestors actually really definitely did for millions of years, while not doubting the possibility that we could build space colonies in the asteroid belt and keep our devices and conveniences—despite nothing remotely of the sort ever being demonstrated. The delusion is fascinating, reminding me of Flat-Earthers, as featured in the insightful documentary “Behind the Curve.” Just as the earth looks flat to us on casual inspection, a few expensive stunts make it look to the faithful like we could someday colonize space. That’s right: I’m lumping space enthusiasts in with Flat-Earthers: enjoy each other’s company, folks!
But the base disconnect is very similar, here. Maintaining 8 billion human people on Earth is no more possible than invading space. It’s not an actual, realizable choice—beyond transitory and costly stunt demonstrations.
Hating the Likes?
The other head-exploding facet to the proposal of a much-reduced population living in something closer to our ecological context is that it would seem to amount to a callous repudiation of precious products of modernity: opera, symphony, great art, lunar landings, modern medicine, David Beckham’s right foot… Why do I hate these things? Well, I never said I did. Again with the words in my mouth… What I—or any of us—might like or dislike is completely irrelevant when it comes to biophysical reality and constraint.
What makes us think we have a choice to separate the good from the bad, when they are most decidedly a package deal that we’ve been wholly unable to separate in practice, all this time? The following tangled figure—itself a staggering oversimplification of the actual mess—is repeated from an earlier post on Likes and Dislikes.

The fundamental flaw is that when faced with an unfamiliar landscape, our brains instantly and automatically assign separate qualities and features to a reality that in truth is inseparably inter-linked. Because the connections are numerous and often far from obvious, we are tricked into believing the entry-level mental model of separability. It’s the most basic and naïve (often adaptively useful) starting point to recognize a bunch of “things” without delving into the Gordian Knot of relationships. But that’s the easy part, and many stop there before it gets hard—often too hard for the very limited human brain, in fact. No blame, here: we all do it.
The Likes and Dislikes are a single phenomenon, having multiple interrelated aspects. Despite initial unexamined impressions, apparently we don’t actually get to choose to have modern medicine without advancing a sixth mass extinction. I’d give up a lot to prevent such a dire outcome—including modern medicine, since preserving it appears to translate to its own terminal diagnosis. Living seven decades is not rare in hunter-gatherer cultures; dental health is far better without agricultural products like grains and sugars dominating diets; and the chronic diseases we know too well in modernity are effectively absent for foraging folk (and not because lives are too short to expose them to the possibility—look deeper!). Modern medicine has extended adult life expectancy (once surviving infant mortality) maybe a decade or two, but at orders-of-magnitude greater per-capita ecological impact: a fatal “bargain” that calls to question our judgment.
Let the Standing Wave Stand
Some cloud patterns stay fixed relative to terrain—a coastline or mountain range/peak—even though the wind whisks along (see orographic and lenticular cloud formations). Moist air condenses at the leading edge, droplets careen through the formation, then evaporate on the trailing edge. These “standing wave” patterns are at once stationary and dynamic, with individual constituents playing a transitory role in a larger, more persistent phenomenon.
Human lives are similar: we flow into and out of life, while genetic patterns preserve a slowly-evolving human form across generations. The problem is that the magnitude and practices of the phenomenon are destroying the ecological conditions that allowed the phenomenon to arise and get so large in the first place. Our 8-billion-strong “cloud” is grossly unsustainable, so that it will collapse via its own downpour if not allowed to shrink. It’s possible to do so by natural attrition and generational transformation of lifestyles. While many factors threaten to make such a transition turbulent and “lossy,” the endpoint itself does not inherently demand a tortured path. Again, given modernity’s structural unsustainability, where we end up is not really an open choice. So, it’s best do what we can to make the only real positive outcome emerge as smoothly as it might: by embracing it and leaning into it rather than putting up a futile and destructive resistance that will hurt (all) lives far more than on the gentler path. Either way, 8 billion people will die. The bigger question is: will millions still live?
Views: 661
I often think: In India, a billion people live on less than $10 a month.
It's shocking. This forced poverty is shocking. This is an incredible hidden demand for everything from transportation to diapers. This is hidden terawatts of energy…
These people don't live in a hunter-gatherer society, they live in capitalist slums in big cities, as scavengers and scavengers. Do any of the great economists, politicians and thinkers think about this when they call for doubling the human population for the sake of growth? I don't think so. The horrors of plague, smallpox and other diseases in the Middle Ages were already markers of unsustainable population growth and population density.
If The Limits to Growth standard run continues to be approximately correct, I do think there will be a massive die-off of billions of people within this century, continuing into the next century. That population reduction would be mainly caused by increased mortality from famine, disease and wet bulb events. Even if we eventually end up with a small sustainable population of perfectly happy hunter-gatherers in a fully recovered environment, that's not much of a comfort to people who have to live through the collapse.
One thing to consider is that the environment our hunter-gatherer ancestors lived in simply does not exist anymore. The environment will eventually recover from all the ecological devastation but not necessarily within a timescale that is relevant to humans.
One of the most honest, thought provoking, and calm offerings/observations of our "8 billion" predicament I've read or encountered to date. Thank you, TM!
Awesome! But given the choice, I would prefer to die slowly.
If ignorance did not prevail…
My own latest read was Carl Sagan's 'Demon Haunted World', his observations were keen at the time, though the situation he describes has gotten much worse since the book was published (1995). People are not only drawn to many irrational and strange beliefs, the dominant (misguided) culture is inculcated into us since birth. There are extremely well funded and wide-reaching propaganda campaigns, disinformation, misinformation, algorithms, AI, bread and circus distractions, psychological impediments, and more. Add on a dismally bad education education system, a populus untrained in critical thinking, the opportunity costs of specialization (mental bandwidth, time, brain-shrinkage), and it should be no surprise that the cult of ignorance reigns supreme. Frankly, it is rare to find people bucking the default trends, which is why those who understand and care about the sixth mass extinction remain a small minority. Most people may eventually care, but not until it is on their doorstep and impacting them personally (probably when it's too late).
Describing modernity as a prison is apt when one considers how we are 'locked in' to the prevailing constructs causing the suicidal push for infinite growth on a finite planet. I can identify four legs to the stool, perhaps there are more. 1) The competitive nation-state system that results in multipolar traps like arms races, causing profligate energy waste to maintain militaries, which themselves want economies, infrastructure, populations, and industrial bandwidth behind them to be 'strong', to amplify their own strength. 2) The embedded growth obligation of the market to service debt and the constant push to grow the economy to avoid recession/contraction. 3) Consumption culture driven deep into the brains and lives of billions of people over decades. 4) Uncontrolled population growth.
I am happy to cheer on demographic downshifting relating to a potential reversal of the fourth item, though do not see evidence that any of the other drivers will stop, reverse course, or change substantially of their own volition before hitting the consequences of negative feedbacks. The fact that negative feedbacks are delayed and take some time to fully express relative to the point of overshoot violation creates an almost a trap-like situation by itself.
It seems that our collective overshoot situation is largely crystalized at this point. Business as usual appears to be slated to continue on with the momentum of a thousand freight trains until it goes off the tracks. Though I personally fail to envision any way that it will end up being a gentle trainwreck.
"My concern is focused on the health and happiness of a biodiverse, ecologically rich future"
Why does this matter though? At some point the earth will be lifeless anyway. The universe won't care. Why is a planet with more species better than one with fewer or none?
To each their own, I guess. It's not an expression of pure logic or rationality. Something is more satisfying than nothing, to this being. Not caring is just not how I'm wired.
I am playing devil's advocate here and thinking on geological timescales….
You are lamenting the 6th mass extinction, but isn't it true that there is normally an evolutionary "explosion" follwing mass extinctions? In which case the future *will* be ecologically rich again (no matter what humans do)… so it seems you are exhibiting a time-preference bias and I have a sneaky suspicion that lurking there is some unrecognised anthropocentricism…
Yes. It may be without humans but, provided some life gets through the bottleneck, there will be a highly diverse biosphere again. This particular mix of species is no better or worse than any other mix of species that the Earth has hosted in the past or will host in the future.
I'm not completely indifferent, being of this age of peak biodiversity. I don't feel awkward wishing against what still may be an avoidable mass extinction. Lamenting the potential extinction of many millions of species whose blood is on our hands is, I hope, a smidge shy of anthropocentrism. On the other hand, neither do I give 0.00000% weight to the species I happen to be part of, and who are not manifestly bad news in every time and culture. Plenty of ground exists between logical extremes.
Another related essay here from W. Rees. :
https://reeswilliame.substack.com/p/fatal-delusions-and-the-curse-of?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=3740437&post_id=174381923&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=ba5a6&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
Personally, I wish humans had never invented agriculture but I don't have illusions about a return to hunting and gathering (not that I'll have to do that personally, but you never know). As a description of "Civilized to Death" mentioned, "Prehistoric life, of course, was not without serious dangers and disadvantages. Many babies died in infancy. A broken bone, infected wound, snakebite, or difficult pregnancy could be life-threatening." I can't imagine many people, in that life-style, dying peacefully in their sleep, after a long fulfilling life.
I recall an episode of "The Ascent of Man" which looked at the Bakhtiari peoples of Iran. They were a nomadic herding people moving their herds around during the seasons. Old people who could no longer make the journey were eventually just left to fend for themselves, as the rest of the group moved on with their herds. Of course, this isn't necessarily what hunter-gatherers would do, but one wonders whether a similar logic would play out.
Still, I doubt anyone would choose a hunter-gatherer lifestyle in preference to having at least some of modernity's comforts around (nor is it possible for 8 billion), so there is no need to try to convince people of the benefits of a primitive lifestyle. It will be whatever it will be.
Thanks for the book recommendation, though. I've ordered it.
The planet would be better off without humans? Well, perhaps ask the planet. What does it say?
I don't quite get your apparent quantitative measurement of preference for the human population times longevity. I don't think there is any way to quantitatively measure that without first assuming that the product of total human life years is the determinant, though you later admitted that it is simply your preference. What does the planet think?
You made a great point about what humans would like is irrelevant if those likes go against physical reality. So many people seem to rail against those who project a collapse of modernity, because what about health care, roads and overseas holidays? Humans couldn't possibly live without those things, so they must continue. No; go ask the planet.
Sorry about the criticisms, that's just the way I am. I agree wholeheartedly with most of the post; you have a great way of breaking things down.
Agricultural systems will collapse in many countries in the coming decades according to this paper form Jem Bendell.
https://insight.cumbria.ac.uk/id/eprint/6927/1/Bendell_BeyondFedUp.pdf
I have linked to this paper before, I think.
They even give a nice little summary
In this chapter we have looked at the six hard trends that are already happening, and lead to food system breakdown:
1. We are hitting the biophysical limits of food production and could hit ‘peak food’ within one generation;
2. Our current food production systems are actively destroying the very resource base upon which they rely, so that the Earth’s capacity to produce food is going down, not up;
3. The majority of our food production and all its storage and distribution is critically dependent upon fossil fuels, not only making our food supply vulnerable to price and supply instability,
but also presenting us with an impossible choice between food security and reducing greenhouse gas emissions;
4. Climate change is already negatively impacting our food supply and will do so with increasing intensity as the Earth continues to warm and weather destabilises, further eroding our ability to produce food;
5. Despite these limits, we are locked into a trajectory of increasing food demand that cannot easily be reversed;
6. The prioritisation of economic efficiency and profit in world trade has undermined food sovereignty and the resilience of food production at multiple scales, making both production and distribution highly vulnerable to disruptive shocks.
Considered individually, each one of the hard trends presents a very significant challenge to global food security. Considered collectively and interdependently, it becomes clear we have created a predicament on a scale and depth unprecedented in modern history, and unprecedented for the sheer number of people who will be affected.
Due to these trends, we will see a major die off as Pirkko mentioned above. By 2100, the population maybe a half to a third of what it is today.